Episode 13: Divorce and the Modern Christian

"God hates divorce."  Pretty hard to misinterpret the meaning of that Bible verse: Malachi 2:16.  But in modern times, 50% of marriages end in divorce!  What does that mean for faithful Christians and Jews who have been divorced, or are considering one in their future?  Listen to Laurie's take on that topic.

Then, Laurie welcomes her charming guest Robin Stearns Lee. Together, the ladies go deep into such topics as marriage for love vs. arranged marriages; highly recommended pre-marital discussion topics; Laurie's True Crime addiction; and God's expectation for a wife to submit to her husband.  (Gasp!) Buckle up and get ready for a great episode!

Useful links:

Laurie's book Journey to Fulfillment

Robin's website

Robin's Amazon author page

Transcript

0:01

Hi, I'm your host Lori Larson, and this is the year I read the Bible. Welcome a Lifelong Christian. I thought I was familiar with the Bible, but in 2023 I accepted the challenge of reading the whole thing, cover to cover. Whenever I encountered something I didn't understand or wanted to learn more. I jotted it down, but I kept reading to stay on schedule. Then I reached the end Imagine Confetti rating down on me, and a huge sigh of relief. I had 40 topics to research in 2024. I started diving into all those topics. I did research, I wrote blogs and I shared them with whoever might wanna learn too. And in 2025, the project continues. I published a book containing all my essays, and now a podcast. Is there something you can learn from that dusty book that sits on all of our shelves? Yes. Yes, there is. Let's dive into The year I read the Bible. Hi everyone, today our topic is divorce and the modern Christian Malachi two 16 reads, I hate divorce, says the Lord God of Israel, new international version. Wow, that's really straightforward. Many other sections I read during my journey through the Bible caused me to scratch my head and say, what is that section meaning to say, I need help figuring it out. But this one, there's only one way to interpret it. God hates divorce. I was curious how many times in the Bible God admitted to hating something, so I Googled it Curiously. Proverbs six 16 through 19 provides a list of seven things God hates, but it excludes divorced. One, haughty eyes. Two. A lying tongue, three hands that shed innocent blood. Four. A heart that devises wicked schemes. Five feet that are quick to rush into evil. Six. A false witness who pours out wise. Seven. A man who stirs up dissension among brothers. Oh, and if you add Malachi's eight divorce, the Proverbs seven look to be a very reasonable list of actions to avoid in your life. They also appear to be things that a person has power over avoiding, except that divorce thing. Divorce is the breaking up of two wedded people. So at the very least, two people's actions and thoughts and problems enter into the decision to end it. What does God say before that? Frequently quoted an isolated verse about divorce in verse 13 of Malachi two, we read. You flood the Lord's altar with tears. You weep and wail because he no longer pays attention to your offerings or accepts them with pleasure from your hands. You ask why it is because the Lord is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage, covenant. Has not, the Lord made them one in flesh and spirit. They are his. And why? One, because he is seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit and do not break faith with the wife of your youth. Marriage was created by design by God Almighty, and he has standards for it. High standards. Sure, it's a fairly easy process to take a partner to the courthouse for a civil union or to a church for a wedding, but God holds marriage in high esteem. And has stern expectations for the people who take the vows of marriage. In this section of Malachi, we see that God made the couple one, and so in flesh and in spirit, the husband and wife are his. Remember the verse, often read during wedding ceremonies what God put together. Let no man put a sunder. That's Matthew 19. Six. Here's my interpretation. God doesn't want divorce to be an option considered lightly, as in, you know, this marriage thing isn't fun anymore. I'm not as happy as I was on our wedding day. It's getting, you know, hard. Let's get a divorce. No. Marriage isn't something we can get easily in and out of like we're changing socks on the website. Got questions.org we read. Marriage is a picture of the Covenant God has with his people. Hebrews nine 15. A covenant is an unbreakable commitment and God wants us to understand how serious it is. When we divorce someone with whom we made a covenant, it makes a mockery of the God created concept of covenant relationships. Reading through the Proverbs list of the things God hates, it strikes me that if a married person keeps those seven types of actions out of the marriage, there would be far fewer divorces to begin with. Okay, so God sees marriage as a sacred covenant between people. That includes he himself as a witness or partner, but people often make mistakes and sometimes divorce seems the only option. Instead of a lifetime of misery for one or both spouses. Does the Bible give us any exceptions to the divorce dictate. Yes, Matthew 5 31 and 32 reads, and Jesus is speaking. It has been said, anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulterous. And anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. When Jesus said it has been said, he's referring to a law or a dictate in the Old Testament, but what he goes on to say actually provides a higher standard on marriage and divorce. Marital unfaithfulness was mentioned in both the old and New Testaments as reasons accepted by God for two believers to divorce. But other than that, marriage should remain a lifelong commitment. That's very disheartening news for Christians and Jews who have found themselves on the receiving end of a very harmful behavior by their spouse. People who have entered a marriage with a person they loved approach the relationship with the commitment required, and when they face troubles. Did their absolute best to solve the problems leaving dissolution of the marriage as the last resort. One year. In the last decade, there seemed to be a divorce cavalcade among my friend group. In a 12 month period, 13 of my friends or coworkers announced they were getting a divorce. It was uncanny. Each and every one had a specific problem at the heart of the decision infidelity, a drug, alcohol or gambling addiction, overspending the couple's money without consulting the partner. The loss of interest in parenting the couple's children, physical and or mental abuse at the hands of the spouse. In each case, the relationship had strayed far from the sacred covenant between spouses that God had created and intended. In some cases, the couple attended to improve their relationship through counseling in others, one spouse or the other was determined to throw in the towel without listening to alternatives. Living in a marriage with this extent of problems, I have to imagine pays a toll on all the members of the household. The spouses could be miserable and bitter and angry. The children could be confused and sad for the loss of their loving parental team. Does God want believers to live in that kind of situation in order to avoid divorce at all costs as the scripture says? I don't believe so. God may hate divorce, but he certainly doesn't hate his beloved children who have pursued divorce after trying with all their hearts to work it out. God loves us and wants us to live fulfilling, happy, peaceful lives, and if we can't live that kind of life under the negative constraints of a broken and unfixable marriage, then what can a believer do? Pray to God to watch over you and make sure that you're not acting in haste. Ask for forgiveness for the action, knowing how strongly he feels about it. And ask him to walk with you as you move on and recover from the harm you endured or caused within your marriage. Danita Huey, a writer for the organization, women of Joy, gives us this heartwarming message about God's love. There is no fine print when it comes to God's love for you. He never says, I'll love you if he never says, I'll love you as long as you don't your actions, good or bad, do not determine his affection for you. There is nothing you can do that will cause him to love you more or less. You don't have to earn it and you can't lose it. The measure of God's love for you was unfathomable before you were formed in your mother's womb. It's not conditional, immovable, unwavering, unconditional. That is God's steadfast love. This message gives me a great sense of peace and relief. Of course, we're going to mess up and not deserve the immense love God has for us, but we don't have to deserve it. We just have to accept it and try to do better the next time to avoid making the same mistakes we made today. CNBC recently performed a study of divorced people at least eight years after their marriage ended. Interestingly, 63% of the focus group said that there was one key factor that would have prevented the dissolution of their marriage. Here is a list of those key factors, a better understanding of the commitment of marriage prior to marrying a better understanding of the values and morals of their partner prior to marrying. Waiting longer to start a family seeking professional help from a therapist or couple's counselor waiting longer to get married. Although the study didn't break out believers from non religiously affiliated people, my opinion when looking at all these factors is that they're all common sense items. That could have been considered when approaching the marriage decision. Communication about these topics between the Premar partners would go a long way toward weeding out partners with different approaches. I recently spoke to one of my friends who was a, a strong and inspirational Christian, be the nicest woman you would ever wanna meet, and c, divorced from an abusive spouse. She has now moved on and enjoyed a long-term successful marriage with a man who is a great fit for her. I asked her how she felt about the Malachi two six verse, her response, I feel guilty. Guilty. Why? I asked, because you divorced your husband. No, she said I had to divorce him because of the damage he was inflicting on me and my children. The guilt is because divorces have long repercussions. Broken families and damaged relationships prevent the happy holidays and family dinners that non divorced families enjoy. I should have never married him in the first place as opposed to marrying him. And having to end it. Have you worked through problems in your marriage and gone through, broken to repaired? Have you had to end a marriage due to the damaging environment, the marriage provided for you and or your family? What do you think of that list of actions that would've prevented a divorce, let's say a prayer. We thank you for sharing with us, God, your vision and plan for the sacred covenant of marriage. We are sorry that as humans we can't possibly live up to your expectations all the time. Thank you for loving us through our problems and our faults. Let us call on you and rely on you. When we need help and help us to be diligent in selecting a mate who will last a lifetime. Amen. And now stay tuned for our interview

Laurie: 15:36

I am so excited now to introduce you to one of my good friends, who is gonna be our guest on this episode. And her name is Robin Sterns Lee. Robin, welcome to the podcast and thanks for being here.

Robin Lee: 15:52

Thanks, Lori. I'm excited to talk today.

Laurie: 15:55

excited too. Why don't you start by telling us just a little bit about yourself and also how we became acquainted with each other.

Robin Lee: 16:05

Okay. I use, my maiden name, and my writer's name just to honor my family, so I just go by Robin Lee, but when I'm writing it's Robin Stearns and I've always been writing. It just seems like from the time I first started writing in school, I had a lot of teacher encouragement. I became the editor of the yearbook. I went on in life to write, for newsletters, newspaper columns. Church newsletters in my work life, I wrote for corporate and local publications. Did a little bit of writing on the side for things I was interested in. I've always loved writing inspirational, heartwarming kind of stories. I didn't really get serious about all that until I had a milestone birthday and I turned 70 and kind of evaluated my life. What have I done? What have I done for the kingdom? How have I advanced things with my God-given talent? And I really couldn't answer that in a positive way. So I decided to join, American Christian Fiction writers. I had always written nonfiction. I love reading fiction, so I wanted to learn fiction. And then I attended a writer's conference. And through that, I met, so many people with connections to publications. I met you when I first attended the American Christian Fiction Writers, local chapter in South Carolina. And then I really got to know you better when I went on the first retreat. So it's really helped me branch out in my writing life. I've had some devotions and articles published where in the past everything got rejected. So that conference kind of opened up magic doors, it seemed to, getting my writing published.

Laurie: 17:47

love what you said

Robin Lee: 17:49

Um.

Laurie: 17:50

looked around and took stock of what am I doing for the kingdom? I mean, you were probably retired from your big job then, and you could be just, what can I do to relax and to have fun and, entertain myself, but no, you looked at what you could do for the kingdom and to spread God's word. I love that. I love that thought.

Robin Lee: 18:13

You are so right. I mean, we've all been given gifts. We have natural gifts and then gifts of the Holy Spirit, and I think it's a, trial in our Christian walk to figure out how are we supposed to be using these?

Laurie: 18:24

And I know since you've joined our chapter, you've just dove right in. You helped plan one of our, April Beach retreats. You did such a great job. And now you're acting as secretary, which is a huge job because you document all the meetings and take care of all the forms that are required. So we sure appreciate it, but you're just such a person and, I just love that about you.

Robin Lee: 18:50

I thank you for that, and I think it's the joy of the Lord. I think that's how we recognize each other as believers.

Laurie: 18:55

true. Now, I know you've had several publications, you've had some of your work published. Why don't you tell us a little bit about those? I

Robin Lee: 19:04

I've had some devotions published, in places like Christian Women living inspiration.org. They're online, publications. I have an author's profile in Amazon. Kind of a cool story. My very first little fiction venture is I mentored a young girl in middle school. And when you meet your student, you try to figure out what your connections are. So I asked her, did she like to read? Which is my passion. And she said, oh, I hate to read, which is like stabbing me in the heart. So, I said, if you had to read anything, what kind of books would it be? And she said, oh, fantasy, kinda like Harry Potter. So I decided to, encourage her to read by writing a little fictional story about a girl who hated to read. I put her in the story and then I published that little story. At first I printed it out and put a cool little cover on it, gave it to her, and she was, tickled about that. And then I self-published it on Amazon, and then showed it to her

Laurie: 20:07

this

Robin Lee: 20:08

and. Yes, and it's like a little 99 cent story. So everything since then that I've published, I've linked it through Amazon since I had my own little author profile. I've been in a couple anthologies. I've had a little short story and a Reader's Digest, book of life stories, and that's all in there. I also had a story in a mother's anthology. It's got a really cool cover, a Rosie the Riveter kind of looking cover, that says iHeart mom. They're all another good stories. So I've been really, excited about that. My biggest excitement was all my life. I've wanted a chicken soup story and I've had rejections, and I finally got one that just came out in April of this year. Chicken Soup for the Soul. What I learned from my dog, and it's just a touching story about a dog we have and how it helped my husband through his cancer journey.

Laurie: 21:02

what? You know, never figure out the whole writing world. You'll always face rejection even if you have published 26 books like I have. But closer to the beginning of my writer career, I was just so frustrated with this and that, and nothing was going right, and I had a mentor. A friend who said she thought it was Winston Churchill who said it first. It's just a very simple statement, but it's never, ever give up. Just don't give up. Keep going. There's no reason to stop. Eventually, you'll have some successes. That's good advice for any writer.

Robin Lee: 21:41

That's great advice. I had a, manager in the past who gave me a bookmark with that on it too, so that was kind of a mantra for me too. Never give up.

Laurie: 21:49

All right. Well, you are here today to chat with me about. My episode about divorce and the modern Christian, and I think any of our listeners can tell that you are a very, inspirational Christian with a strong faith. You also have a divorce in your past. We read in the essay about how in Malachi said, I hate divorce. He didn't, pull any punches. He, hates divorce. What are your thoughts about God's strong reaction to divorce since you have been through it yourself?

Robin Lee: 22:27

Even though I have been divorced, I do agree divorce is a sin. God created marriage. It was a covenant that he established, and when we break that covenant, it's a sin. But I also believe like any other sin we, imperfect humans commit that he has forgiven me of that sin. The consequences are gonna always be there. There's always gonna be that, uncomfortable feeling between, the ex-spouse, when you have children, which I did. That's always a guilt I have that I put them in the middle of that. Those consequences never go away. But I believe in marriage. I believe it was meant for life. You mentioned in the, essay. That it seemed like there was a time in your life where everybody was kind of getting divorced and I have to admit, I don't think I would've even considered it if my own parents had not divorced when I was 21. So I do believe that marriage should be a lifelong, I met a counselor at one time who said that he believed he could take any two people in the world and put them together and have them follow just a few basic rules and they could create a successful marriage. And I thought that was a pretty, out there statement, but after listening to him, I kind of believed it because, when God created marriage, he made those two people one. And if they act as one and everything that they do, they can have a successful marriage. So it's when one of the two stops wanting to be one, what do you do to fix that? You have to have that commitment by both people, and it's a commitment that involves God. So if you leave out any part of that, then yes, it's gonna be harder to stay married.

Laurie: 24:08

kind of makes me think of, in the US where we both live, we fall in love and choose a spouse because we're in love with them. In other cultures, more so in the past, but I think still in today's world, in some Asian cultures especially, the parents arrange for. Their child to marry someone. There isn't really a love match, but it would be so interesting to study the, divorce rates of the way we do it and the way they do it and see,'cause what you're describing that that counselor said. Any two people, as long as they follow these guidelines, that doesn't really sound like a love match. Or maybe eventually there is a love match. Maybe you don't love the person at the beginning, but you will eventually, how important is being Natalie in love with that person at the beginning?

Robin Lee: 25:02

Yes. I think that that love, that attraction at the beginning is kind of overrated because that pales after a while and there's gotta be something deeper. I remember my sister was always attracted to these bodybuilding kind of guys, these macho men. Who were nothing up here, nothing emotional. And I asked her one time of her current love and I said if he was hurt in an accident tomorrow and was paralyzed from the neck down and no longer had that fantastic bod, would you still wanna be with him? She thought for a minute, she goes, well no. And'cause there really was nothing there, he didn't really care about things that she cared about. He just was all body and brawn. So I think we put too much emphasis on that attraction, but yet it's what God put in us that brings us together to start meeting. We need to really date longer. We need to really learn about each other more. Talk about things like. Do you want children? And if we did have children, how would you do this? I don't think we spend a lot time at that.

Laurie: 26:04

Well, and a lot of people, myself included, I met. The man who would become my husband, and now we've been married for 36 years, but I met him when I was 25. And I had already been through a broken engagement. I thought I had found the man that I was gonna marry, but it didn't work out. And fortunately we both figured that out before we committed to each other because there were just too many obstacles, then I met man and I. Wanted it to work out. But I was also very cautious'cause I was gun shy, you know? he had never had a broken relationship like he knew, from what he tells me, he knew from the very beginning that I was the one for him and he was the one for me too. But like I said, the circumstances were that I just couldn't feel good about committing right away because of, what had happened to me before. But regardless of all that. We were 25. What do we know about talking about what do you want in a marriage? We both had, parents that were very strong, committed, married people, both my parents and his parents had strong marriages, so we had that example. But don't know what, when you're that age, what you're gonna face and what you need to decide ahead. I mean, yeah, we did talk about. Our Christianity and our desire for children, and we also talked about what kind of, jobs we wanted have, just from the sake of, we don't wanna have something that would require a lot of travel or a lot of night work just because it would be hard on the relationship. We did do that, but my gosh, so much has happened over the last 36 years that we had to face together that we never would've dreamed of when we were 25.

Robin Lee: 27:53

Right. I think there's a lot of pastors now who won't commit to perform a wedding ceremony unless he has a lengthy, premarital counseling and I think it's those kind of things they'll discuss. In my case I was even more ill prepared than you thought you were. I was only 18 and, I had not dated anyone, but this man I married, so I didn't have prior relationship. I didn't have any confidence in fact, he even told me that I better marry him because nobody else would want me. I had one of those lack of confidence kind of things going as a young girl anyway. And to hear something like that I said, well, I guess I better, you know.

Laurie: 28:31

to, he wanted to put you in a position of gratefulness to him for marrying you so that he could do anything he wanted and you would always forgive him.

Robin Lee: 28:44

Yes. I didn't really see that. So yes, having no, and having more years of experience, having more dating experience, all that would've been beneficial. And I, who knows, I might've just not even married him.

Laurie: 28:57

Yeah. you would have held him accountable to, Hey, no, we're even, we're equals. You don't talk to me like that. You would've had that confidence in yourself if you had a little more experience, before going into it. So in the essay I described the one reason that the Bible endorses divorce is infidelity, but there are many reasons to divorce in addition to infidelity. Do you think that God's intent is for us to stay in unhappy marriages?

Robin Lee: 29:33

I think the key word there is unhappy. If you're just simply unhappy, I think, that's a signal that God wants you to work at it. Marriage is work. It's not, hearts and flowers. All of your days, you're gonna go through hard times together. And if you haven't formed that foundation of a good, strong commitment to each other, then you're gonna crumble at the first little incident that you go through. I think God wants us to be happy, but if we're unhappy. Is one thing that can be fixed, but in my case, in many other cases, there was emotional and physical abuse involved. And I know that my loving God does not want me to stay in that. I did try to get help. I did try to get counseling and, he was not cooperative. So if you don't have, like I said earlier, that commitment, of your partner to wanna keep this marriage strong. Anything I complained about, his response would be, oh, well there's the door. You know, you can leave anytime you want. So what do you do with that? I think God wants us to be committed for life, but he does not want us to be harmed or abused. Even though I still feel that I committed a sin. I broke a covenant when I divorced. My God forgave me for that. I don't think my loving God wanted me to stay.

Laurie: 30:56

a loving father and just like any loving father, he wouldn't want his daughter to be in an abusive relationship my husband and I are a big fan of, true crime series like Dateline 2020, and we always try to figure out the murder. And so many times people who, claim to be Christians, unhappy in their marriage and they would rather murder the spouse than to divorce'em because the Bible says don't divorce. But guess what the Bible says? Don't kill either.

Robin Lee: 31:29

I'm interested in the phenomenon that I'm seeing where people are living together more often than they're marrying. I think part of that is to have that back door, where if they aren't happy they can just walk away. Where in a marriage you've gotta go through a lot to become divorced. I think people are seeing divorces and seeing the, toll it takes so they're not marrying so that they don't have to go through that.

Laurie: 31:53

Yeah. Marriage is not easy. Even a good marriage between two committed people, it's not smooth sailing all the time. Something may happen that, one spouse or the other decides, no, I, I can't deal with this. Or, my only option is to end it. But what do you think? Are the best ways for people are considering marriage or even in the midst of a hard part of a marriage, what can they do prepare and to heal and to stay together?

Robin Lee: 32:28

Well, what I think is missing on. A lot of marriages and how God created it is he's part of that

Laurie: 32:34

Yeah.

Robin Lee: 32:36

You know, he's the head of the home. We're forgetting that sometimes in marriages and we're not aligning with him. I am happily married now, for 35 years. And, my husband and I, have a very good relationship. But there was something that came up recently where he was not considering my. On it. He was gonna do something when I didn't want him to. And it was so important to me that I was almost wanting to tell him, this is gonna be a deal breaker in our marriage. If you purposely do something that I do not want you to do, and you're not considering me as your helpmate in this, then you've broken something. And I remember I went to the Lord and praying about the situation, and it was like he spoke audibly to me, he said. I gave you this man as the head over you, and I needed to go ahead and submit my part in this situation we were going through and I acknowledged it immediately and I said, you're right, Lord. Yes, yes, I will do that. Before I could even go and say anything to my husband, he came to me and said, I'm not gonna do what I said I was gonna do. I never even told him about that conversation that I had with the Lord, but the minute that I did the biblical right thing by submitting and telling the Lord I'm gonna submit to my husband, he fixed the situation for me. Isn't it beautiful? It gets me chills whenever I tell that story.

Laurie: 34:09

The whole idea of the man is that head of the household and to your husband, it's not. A 21st century. it's not common, right? I think there's so many strong women and so many, accomplished and successful women that we take that a little bit like, well, wait a minute. Like you said, I don't think it means that we have to just, well, okay, he wants to do it. I don't agree, but he wants to do it and I have to submit to him. No, I think it's more of a give and take. Let's talk about it, but if in the end you have to go through with this, I will accept it in light of our marriage together, the covenant with God.

Robin Lee: 34:54

I think that word submit gets kind of a bad rap too, because when you consider what e Ephesians orders us, it orders the women, to submit. But it orders the man to love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself work. So he is got a lot harder commandment than we do by simply submitting.

Laurie: 35:14

one of my novels, I have a series called Polys Island Paradise and book three of that series is called, Journey to Fulfillment and it's basically a love story between a married couple with a child and there was a terrible. Event, the child was kidnapped and they had to work together. It was actually at the end of book two that she was recovered. But in book three, they have to deal with the aftermath and they had completely different approaches to how to keep that child safe, it involved another family member, one was supportive of that family member and the other one wasn't. Anyway, if you're interested, go read the book, but, I had to dig into that exactly that bible section that you were talking about, about how. Wives are supposed to submit to their husbands, but husbands have the higher responsibility respecting their wives and treating them as Jesus treats his church, as he's the bridegroom. We are the bride and with utmost respect. So yeah, I did dig into that whole section to include into, journey to fulfillment. Robin, it's been such a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much for being here. Is there anything else you'd like to add on this topic of divorce and the modern Christian before we, wrap it up?

Robin Lee: 36:44

I, have always wondered why God made us so different. It was one of those questions, that I thought, as soon as I see Jesus, I'm gonna ask him, why are men and women so different?'Cause we're always gonna be, at odds with each other and when you think back it's because of the falls, because of the sin that came into the earth. But, we're just so different. I think, that's one of the hardest parts of marriage too, is you gotta learn that you're each different and accept that you're still one, but you have different aspects. That's the only thing that I really wanted to add.

Laurie: 37:16

true. We think of things differently. We approach things differently. well, he's male, we're female. We're so different just by the nature of things, but sometimes our personalities are so different. True. And as your marriage gets longer and longer. It's a matter of. Loving and respecting the differences as opposed to being frustrated by the differences,

Robin Lee: 37:38

In my own marriage, I always tell my husband, he is very strong-minded and he has very strong opinions about how things should be done. And I said, you know, God gave me to you for balance. I'm supposed to be the one to come alongside you and you're supposed to be considering my opinion before you make these final decisions. And you know, he agrees and he'll listen. But it's just so funny that I have to remind him of that.

Laurie: 38:00

That's part of our role. We remember that we have to remind them. Robin, thank you so much again. It was so much fun having you here, and I hope you have a very blessed day.

Robin Lee: 38:14

And blessings to you too. Thank you for having me.

38:22

And that's it for today. Thank you very much for being here with me on The Year I Read the Bible Podcast. We'll be back with another episode next week. If you enjoy this podcast, please do all the normal things to spread the word: like it, review it, share it with your friends. If you are interested in additional The Year I Read the Bible resources such as the book, the video channel, and the blog, I will certainly include the links in the show notes. And I'd love to hear about your own journey to read the Bible cover to cover. Have you done it or are you doing it right now? Please reach out to me and let me know how it's going. Until next time, it's Laurie Larsen with The Year I Read the Bible. Bye.