The Year I Read the Bible with Laurie Larsen

Episode 27: What About Baptism?

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Welcome back to new Bible study content after our short holiday break!  Here's wishing a super new year for all of us!

Laurie digs in deep about the Christian practice of baptism.  Why do we do it?  What's it for?  What does the Bible say about it? Why do various Christian denominations argue about when a person should be baptized?  If a believer dies before being baptized, will they go to heaven?

Laurie welcomes a very knowledgeable guest to help her navigate the "waters" of this topic!  Our warm welcome to Dianne Miley!  Dianne is an author of Christian fiction and the founder of the not-for-profit Sanctuary of Unborn Life in Charleston, SC.  She's done so much good in this world, and Laurie's blessed to call her a friend.

Check out Dianne's work at these links:

Dianne's website

Dianne's Amazon author page

Sanctuary of Unborn Life

Hi, I'm your host Lori Larson, and this is the year I read the Bible. Welcome a Lifelong Christian. I thought I was familiar with the Bible, but in 2023 I accepted the challenge of reading the whole thing, cover to cover. Whenever I encountered something I didn't understand or wanted to learn more. I jotted it down, but I kept reading to stay on schedule. Then I reached the end Imagine Confetti rating down on me, and a huge sigh of relief. I had 40 topics to research in 2024. I started diving into all those topics. I did research, I wrote blogs and I shared them with whoever might wanna learn too. And in 2025, the project continues. I published a book containing all my essays, and now a podcast. Is there something you can learn from that dusty book that sits on all of our shelves? Yes. Yes, there is. Let's dive into The year I read the Bible. Hello listeners. I hope you're having a great day. Let's jump right into our essay topic for today. It is called What About Baptism? Last Sunday on a beautiful clear evening in the South Carolina low country, my son and I took part in a creek baptism service offered by our church. It's a special ceremony that they offer once a year in the summer to anyone who is interested in participating. It appealed to him and me last year, but the date didn't work. So this year we made sure to add our names to the list of participants. We arrived dressed in clothes and shoes that we knew would get wet. My husband attending as a supportive witness and a friend attending as supporter and photographer. We mentioned to the pastor that we were there for the baptism. He asked us a series of questions, mainly focused around whether we'd been baptized before and if so. How were we baptized and at what type of church? My son and I each had been baptized as infants in Protestant churches in front of a congregation. The pastor had sprinkled water on our heads as part of the ceremony. Based on those answers, the pastor knew what to do with us. He would not repeat the official baptism ceremony for us. We would personally renew the significance of our original baptisms, and he would immerse us in the water. In addition to us, there were three children present to be baptized, and this ceremony was their first baptism. For them. There was specific wording to be spoken between the children, the pastor, and the congregation, which was skipped for us. My son and I agreed that it was an exhilarating and exciting experience. I felt the presence of God as we partook in this ancient spiritual ceremony. We're both glad we did it. So it seems timely for me to focus this episode on the topic of baptism. What's it for? What does it accomplish? What's the difference between your parents having you baptized as an infant and you deciding to do it as an adult? Does it count? Here are some of my findings. First of all, Jesus asked John the Baptist. To baptize him. Let's read Matthew three 13 through 17 in the new international version. Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John, but John tried to deter him saying, I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me? Jesus replied, let it be so now. It is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness. Then John consented. As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment, heaven was opened and he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove and a lighting on him, and a voice from Heaven said, this is my son whom I love With him. I am well pleased. John knew that he was the forerunner to Jesus earlier in Matthew's gospel. He tells the people who are following him In Matthew three 11, I baptize you with water for repentance, but after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire when Jesus approaches John, where he is baptizing sinners, and Jesus asks John to baptize him, John immediately holds a hand up and says, and this is my paraphrase. No way me baptizing you. I'm not worthy. But Jesus pushes the issue. John performs the baptism, and God opens up the heavens to share how pleased he is. I absolutely love the image of God's voice from heaven declaring how pleased he is with his boy. Baptism existed in the Old Testament too. We may mistakenly believe that baptism was a new practice introduced by the beginning of Christianity, but not exactly. Mary Fairchild wrote an article for learn religions.com entitled The Purpose of Baptism in the Christian Life. In it. She says, before, exploring the purpose of baptism in the Christian life, it's important to gain an understanding of its meaning. The English word baptism comes from the Greek bma, which refers to washing, dipping, or immersing something into water. A general biblical definition of baptism is a rite of washing with water as a sign of religious purification and consecration. This rite of cleansing with water as a means of achieving ritual purity was practiced frequently in the Old Testament. For example, Exodus 30, 19 and 20. Baptism signified purity or cleansing from sin and devotion to God, but it's different when it's connected with Jesus. In Mark one, four, and five, we see the beginning of the change in purpose for the Bima from Old Testament to new. And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the, for forgiveness of sins, confessing their sins. They were baptized by him and the Jordan River. A baptism of repentance, confession, and forgiveness of sins. Mary Fairchild continues in her article quote, baptism is significant in that it represents the forgiveness and cleansing from sin that comes through faith in Jesus Christ. Baptism publicly acknowledges one's confession of faith and belief in the gospel message. It also symbolizes the sinner's entrance into the community of believers, or the church end quote. So why do we get baptized? Dr. Ray Pritchard wrote an article entitled, what is Baptism? It's Meaning and Importance in Christianity? Here are his thoughts on this important question. If the meaning of baptism could be summarized in one word, that would be identification. Baptism in Christian faith speaks primarily of personal public identification with Jesus Christ. In Romans six, three, and four, the Apostle Paul puts the matter this way. Don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. Notice the strength of the expressions baptized into Christ, baptized into his death. And buried with him in baptism. How important is your baptism? It is your personal identification with the greatest act of human history, the death, burial, resurrection, and eternal life of Jesus Christ. Baptism doesn't save you. Salvation comes by faith alone. As we know from reading Ephesians two, eight and nine. Your guilt before God is removed, the moment you trust in Christ. But baptism is your personal testimony to and the inward assurance of your passage from the old life to the new. And that is the end of the quote from Dr. Ray Pritchard. Should we be baptized as infants or should we wait till we can make our own decision? Good question. In fact, various groups of Christians disagree on this distinction of the baptism ritual. Some take the stand that if your parents made the decision to baptize you as an infant, you yourself didn't make that decision and commitment to Jesus. So what could it possibly mean? Others say that if no baptism had been done until the child was older, and God forbid the child dies before they have a chance to be baptized, it could impact their eternity and the certainty of going to heaven. Here's how Dr. Pritchard explains it. Quote, infant baptism is a practice in some Christian denominations where infants are baptized to initiate them into the covenant community of the church. Proponents argue that this practice is rooted in biblical principles and the early Christian tradition. For example, Colossians two 11 and 12 draws a parallel between baptism and circumcision, suggesting that as infants were circumcised to enter the covenant with God in the Old Testament, they can be baptized to enter the new covenant through Christ. Opponents of the baptism of infants argue that baptism should follow an individual's personal confession of faith, which infants are incapable of making. They point out that the New Testament emphasizes repentance and belief before adult baptism, such as in Acts 2 38, where Peter says, repent and be baptized. Critics also argue that there is no explicit biblical mandate for baptizing infants and that the practice developed later in church history as a tradition rather than a direct scriptural command end quote. Hmm. Personally, I feel that either or both is good and God recognizes the intention of our actions. If I hadn't been baptized as a child, but made the decision later in life to partake, he recognizes that if I had been baptized as a child and later developed a personal relationship with him as creator and never renewed my baptismal vows as an. He knows that too. The thing that bothers me is that Christians believers in Christ have now created a divisive stance on something that was never meant to divide us. We're down to the nitty gritty questions now, and here's some short and sweet answers. According to my research, do Unbaptized babies who die go to heaven? According to the website about catholics.com, a person who dies in a state of sin and without the graces of baptism may not enter heaven. However, infants are not guilty of sin. After all, they have not committed personal sin. Infants do not have the capability to choose to sin. What about unbaptized adults who are believers in Christ? Does the absence of a baptism stop them from spending eternity in heaven? According to the website, bible study tools.com, one does not have to be baptized to go to heaven. However, believers and their children should submit themselves to baptism if they are able. God commanded that we should be baptized, but our baptism, the visible expression of what God has done for us, that is God's grace is not the saving power, but is rather the divine authentication of God's grace. I'd love to hear your thoughts. What do you think about baptism, when it's done, what it means for our lives and our after lives? Leave me a comment and let me know what's on your mind. Meanwhile, let's close out in prayer. Dear God, I thank you for the beautiful baptism by immersion ceremony that my son and I participated in among so many other Christians as a living example of our faith and hope in you. Thank you also for the millions of faithful parents who made it a priority to have their precious infants baptized. We appreciate the opportunity to seek forgiveness and be redeemed for our sins and to follow in the footsteps of your son Jesus when he was baptized by John the Baptist. Amen. And now stay tuned. You can listen in on a conversation that I had with my friend Diane Miley about baptism.

Laurie:

Listeners, we are back and I'm so excited to introduce to you a good friend of mine who is a very inspiring writer and a founder of a, not-for-profit, which I'm going to ask her to tell us all about. She's so much fun to hang out with. We've been to the beach together numerous times. We see each other usually monthly. And her name is Diane Miley. Welcome Diane.

Dianne:

so good to be here with you today

Laurie:

Oh, I'm so excited you're joining us.

Dianne:

have fun together.

Laurie:

We do. So why don't you start by telling us a little bit about yourself and then also how you and I became acquainted with each other.

Dianne:

well, I first met Lori when, I was invited to a get together to about Christian Writers Group in Charleston. So I was super excited for the group and super excited to meet Lori. We've been friends ever since. There's wonderful Christian writers in that group. I, love the group. I have since moved to Charlotte from Charleston, for my grandchildren I, I cannot leave this group. It's just such a wonderful group of writers and, I appreciate Lori being. Involved in helping the group, and that's how we met and it's been great. We do the writer's retreats at the beach and hang out and it's always good.

Laurie:

And you became the president of your new chapter in Charlotte.

Dianne:

a chapter here because I, I believe as big of a city as Charlotte is that there was not a chapter here. So, we started one, so now we have one here. So it's good.

Laurie:

Yeah. Well, I mentioned to the listeners that you are a writer. You wanna tell us a little bit about your writing and your books and where they can find them.

Dianne:

well, my books are all on Amazon. I have, an author page on Amazon under my name Diane Miley, my first book was a nonfiction, and it's, called Time to Enjoy Your Blessings. It's about simplifying your life, getting back to basics, and that's something I've been trying to do. I wrote it when my children were young and I needed to get my life simple and organized, and I'm kind of trying to go back to it again. It's something you have to revisit throughout life was things get complicated again.

Laurie:

Yeah. Seasons of life, right?

Dianne:

things that come up that you don't necessarily plan or expect. So you have to get yourself through those things. That was my first book, but shortly after. That I decided I really wanted to write stories, so I started writing Christian novels. They're women's fiction, romance mystery, a little suspense, all the fun things, small town. I have four novels that are published and I have a few short stories published, and I just recently. Published another short story that I, I came up with a new idea and I'm calling it a navine, so it's like a novella and a magazine together.

Laurie:

Yes, and I downloaded it. I can't wait to check it out to see what exactly makes it a navine.

Dianne:

some, I have more ideas on. I had a little bit of formatting trouble with it, so I have some new ideas on how to format it to get a little bit more of the magazine features in there. right now, the one that I have out, it's a Christmas story and it has, some bible verses. It has color photographs, so it's in color. So I've always thought, you know, novels are just. Text and it would be so much fun if you had some color pictures in there and little graphics or something. So it has some color photos and also has recipes at the end,

Laurie:

oh, that's exciting. I can't wait to dig into it.

Dianne:

of fun to do and I have some great ideas for the next one. I'd like to do some sidebars with little more information about the characters, little tidbits about the character that aren't necessarily in the story, things like that, or

Laurie:

Mm-hmm.

Dianne:

kinds of little fun things to make it more like a magazine.

Laurie:

Tell us the title of this one.

Dianne:

for Ashes, it is the story of a young woman who, is dating a firefighter and she met him. When her mother actually died in a car accident, in a fire, that's how she met him. And so that's where the ashes part comes from, it has a happy ending. They have some challenges to go through. The main character is a high school senior, so she's very young. Her boyfriend is, graduated. He's a couple years older than her, so they have some challenges they need to work through and, challenges to their faith. And, you'll have to read it to find out more.

Laurie:

Well, with any romance novel you have to have challenges because as I learned early on when I was trying to write. Happy, cheerful stories. If there's no conflict or no problems, nobody's gonna continue to read it.

Dianne:

Right,

Laurie:

There's no story right.

Dianne:

I know it's so hard. At first, it was really hard for me I did the same thing. I wanted to have this, happy the perfect family, the perfect characters, the perfect setting. I quickly found, what do I say? Now I have great fun making difficulties for my characters. It was hard at first, and now it's

Laurie:

Yeah, just putting them through the ringer. I mean, when something starts going right, we gotta think of something that makes it go wrong. So now I will, link into our episode notes, your Amazon author page and your website.

Dianne:

And you wanted me to

Laurie:

Mm-hmm.

Dianne:

about the nonprofit as well. So,

Laurie:

Yes, please do.

Dianne:

Sanctuary of Unborn Life. I took a break from writing for about a decade and started a nonprofit and it's just something that I felt called to do and not really something that was ever on my radar before. It just came on my heart and I thought, this is something that needs to happen. And so God provided what I needed, the connections and all the things I needed to make it happen. it's called Sanctuary of Unborn Life. And the short name is Soul. It's the acronym. And what Soul does is help single pregnant women in need with housing mentoring. And we have a support group called Soul Sisters. How we actually started it was with the support group. And then as we raised funding, we were able to help them with housing. And now we do have a small maternity home the Charleston area. So it's been quite a journey, making that

Laurie:

A labor of love.

Dianne:

So now I incorporate some of the things that I've experienced through Soul in my stories. in beauty for Ashes, there is a fictional soul maternity home. It's a mansion at the beach, which is

Laurie:

Oh

Dianne:

what soul really is at all, but since it's fiction, you get to do these things. So, Soul is a mansion at the beach, in, beauty for ashes.

Laurie:

wow. What, an amazing thing that you did that, I mean, it was never easy. It couldn't have been easy, but you must have just kept moving and growing and expanding and learning as you went. And now, imagine the impact that you're having on people that need help at a very vulnerable time of their lives.

Dianne:

it's very rewarding and it is hard and it's a huge challenge always. It's still a huge challenge,

Laurie:

Except now you're long distance.

Dianne:

so that makes it a challenge in a different way because now I'm trying to do it from far away I was involved in it on a day-to-day basis and, meeting with the women myself and running the organization at the same time, and now I'm, more removed from the day to day operations. I'm the president of the board now, is what my role is, so it's different.

Laurie:

Oh, that's good. And that, Christian writers, chapter where we met, we have a special relationship with Soul to, because one of our projects a couple years ago, to help. The writers in our chapter to learn the process of writing and editing and publishing and promoting was, uh, we wrote a anthology, uh, short stories or novellas, with a common theme, and we decided to donate all of our proceeds. To Soul to help with, their efforts. So we were able to go to the annual tea and meet some of the employees that you had in place. And, every month when we got our royalties for sales, we would send them off to Soul for whatever they felt they could use it for.

Dianne:

that partnership and actually Soul still has some of the books, the anthology books. We still have some

Laurie:

Oh good.

Dianne:

so we are always

Laurie:

Oh, good.

Dianne:

trying to, use those to encourage others, in what we do and encourage them to read and, all of it. So it's all good.

Laurie:

Well, we are here today to talk about one of my essays that I just read, to the listeners it's called, what About Baptism? In that essay I described the creek baptism that my son and I took part in. What is your own experience with baptism?

Dianne:

I was baptized when I was 12 and I had a traditional church baptism. I had dedicated my life, become a Christian, got saved, however you wanna put it. When I was seven and my mom started taking us to church when I was four. And then when I was 12 I actually got baptized. My dad wanted me to wait till I was 12 for whatever reason. I don't know what magical age 12 is,

Laurie:

I have heard that. Was that something that your church that you're attending at the time recommended or

Dianne:

just wanted me to wait till I was 12,

Laurie:

Oh, okay.

Dianne:

I'm not sure why, but that was the age he picked, guess he just wanted to make sure I understood what I was doing. That's probably what it was.

Laurie:

Now, did you get immersed or did you have the sprinkling on the head

Dianne:

We

Laurie:

of water?

Dianne:

you know, like a little mini pool in the back of the church and

Laurie:

Mm-hmm.

Dianne:

for, for baptism. And that church did not do infant baptism. It was a Baptist church and they didn't do infant baptisms

Laurie:

Okay.

Dianne:

So that's how I was raised as a. Southern Baptist. And then when I grew up, got married, my husband was raised Catholic, so he was baptized as an infant. We decided as a couple, it actually was a better fit for us to become Lutherans. It was kind of in between Baptist and Catholic, but it also,

Laurie:

Yeah.

Dianne:

fit for our. beliefs and what worked better for us. It was kind of amazing being

Laurie:

Mm-hmm.

Dianne:

up in so two such different denominations that really our core beliefs were practically identical. It was interesting that there were some things that I thought a little differently than the Baptist church did, and he thought some things a little differently than the

Laurie:

Yeah.

Dianne:

did or his, our beliefs.

Laurie:

Yeah.

Dianne:

Lutheran church that fit what we believed really well, and we started going there as a couple. And then when we had children, we raised our children Lutheran. And the Lutheran church does do infant baptisms, so our children were

Laurie:

Mm-hmm.

Dianne:

as infants.

Laurie:

Oh, that's cool. I like that. Well, in the essay I read the story of in Matthew three, Jesus asks, kind of reluctant John the Baptist to baptize him. I can just see him, oh, I, I'm not worthy, that would probably put a lot of pressure on John the Baptist. But Jesus, of course, made him comfortable with, yes, this is what we're supposed to be doing. As he came out of the water, the voice of God coming from the skies proclaiming how pleased he is with his son. I love that scene, and you're a fiction writer like I am. Can't you just picture that in your head? What are your thoughts on that scene?

Dianne:

I imagine John being, you said, pretty blown away by this honor of baptizing The son of God he was thinking, who am I to baptize the son of God? I

Laurie:

Yeah.

Dianne:

of picture him being awestruck and wide-eyed. And then when God is speaking from heaven with his approval, that he is pleased with his son, just looking into heaven and the light of God shining on his face but I imagine Jesus being very humble and pleased with his father's approval and maybe holding back a chuckle at his friend John's reaction to this just being so awestruck with the voice of God not just his honor, but his responsibility to baptize Jesus. wow, that's amazing.

Laurie:

Right, because I think it was in Isaiah four, I think I'm gonna go off top of my head. The prophets were prophesying about John the Baptist, not by name, but John has got to look at those Old Testament prophecies and say, okay, my gosh, this is me. I've got a big job, but it's been predicted from early on.

Dianne:

Yeah. For centuries they were waiting for the Messiah and then to imagine that this has actually happened and it's here right now, and I am involved in this. That's just crazy.

Laurie:

Right. Definitely. Crazy. So, talking about the topic of, baptism several. Different denominations of Christians disagree about the topic of baptism, not the need to do it. I think everybody agrees with the need to be baptized, but just the timing, I guess. Like do you do it as an infant baptism or do you wait until a person is old enough, like you were saying in the Southern Baptist denomination to make their own decision about. Being baptized or the method of baptism, do you immerse the person or do you sprinkle them on the head? So I said in the essay, I, it bums me out that Christians are finding something to argue about when there's really no need to, have that controversy in our, church. What do you think about, is there a need to worry or argue about this topic?

Dianne:

I so much agree with you. I think it's more important to have unity in the church than to have arguments about things. And I'm not saying that doctrine isn't important or that how we baptize isn't important. It is important of course, I think it's

Laurie:

Mm-hmm.

Dianne:

more important to have unity. I feel like the Bible obviously isn't crystal clear on the method. I mean, it's crystal clear that Jesus was immersed and of course following his example be ideal. However, it's not crystal clear that there was a particular age that children needed to be baptized. that people

Laurie:

Mm-hmm.

Dianne:

to be baptized. And there's several instances in the Bible when, in the New Testament when Jesus said He and his whole household was baptized. And if the whole

Laurie:

Ah.

Dianne:

several times in the New Testament, surely there were children, infants who were baptized. I feel like if it's not exact and specific instruction from God that is me, giving us some leeway.

Laurie:

Yeah,

Dianne:

there's many Bible scholars and theologians who have studied this far more than I have, and if they can't agree on this, I just feel like it's more important for us to have unity as Christians and that's. Uh,

Laurie:

I agree.

Dianne:

kind of a hot button issue for me, especially having been

Laurie:

Mm-hmm.

Dianne:

to several different types of churches, you know what they say? Divide and conquer. And when Satan can get in and have us arguing about things, that's not the main message. Our first commandments are

Laurie:

Mm.

Dianne:

God and to love one another, those I

Laurie:

Mm-hmm.

Dianne:

important than exact method that we baptize someone.

Laurie:

that's such a good point about when we break the unity of Christians or followers of Christ, we are allowing, room for the devil to sneak in and cause problems. Yeah.

Dianne:

it weakens our faith, it distracts us from what's really important, and it also jeopardizes our witness to nonbelievers because as a nonbeliever in

Laurie:

Yeah.

Dianne:

Not really necessarily even believing in God or not going to church. Why would you want to put yourself in that type of a situation where people are just bickering? It's against everything that Christianity stands for to me, to be bickering and arguing.

Laurie:

We moved and we visited both the churches of our childhood denominations. One of the churches we went to, there was a ongoing feud within the church that the pastor talked about in his sermon. And he was trying to address the people who were having the bete and causing all these hard feelings. But as visitors, that chased us out and we're like, we're not dealing with this.

Dianne:

flag.

Laurie:

There's way too many others to choose from. But as far as when or how we get baptized, what do you think it means in relation to our lives and our after lives?

Dianne:

I see the symbolism of the immersion baptism is a proclamation of our faith, and for an infant, it's the parent's proclamation of dedicating their child to faith. And I feel like when we're baptized, we're telling the world that we're a Christian and we're obeying and we're standing with Christ. And then as far as the afterlife, receive our rewards in heaven according to our obedience. And the Bible does tell us to be baptized. So, I believe that as a Christian, it is something we should be doing. We should be getting baptized, making that confession of faith in public.

Laurie:

Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful. I really like those thoughts. It gives us a lot to think about. Thank you so much for joining me today to talk about baptism and we'll go ahead and end it there. But stay tuned, listeners, because next week Diane will be back. She'll be my guest for the second week in a row. When we talk about John the Baptist.

Dianne:

Well, thank you Lori. I really appreciate you having me here today, I look forward to

Laurie:

Thank you.

Dianne:

you again about John the Baptist. That sounds great.

Laurie:

Okay, sounds good. We'll talk to you again soon.

and that's it for today. Thank you very much for being here with me on the year I read the Bible Podcast. We'll be back with another episode next week. If you enjoy this podcast, please do all the normal things to spread the word like it. Review it, share it with your friends. If you are interested in additional the year, I read the Bible resources such as the book, the video channel, and the blog, I will certainly include the links in the show notes, and I'd love to hear about your own journey to read the Bible cover to cover. Have you done it or are you doing it right now? Please reach out to me and let me know how it's going. Until next time, it's Lori Larson with the year I read the Bible. Bye.

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