Episode 31: Jesus As the Ultimate Project Manager

Laurie draws parallels between Jesus's three-year earthly ministry and a job she used to perform, as a project manager of large, complicated efforts.  Similarities do exist -- defining your scope, meeting regularly with your sponsor, developing and educating your core team, and staying determined to deliver the end product against all odds and adversity.  

However, where Laurie was managing projects that delivered systems and applications, Jesus was "managing a project" to deliver eternal redemption for all mankind.  Stay with us and see if you can "pick up what Laurie's putting down."  :) 

Laurie welcomes back return guest Beth Dulee, who was a friend and coworker back in their mutual project management days.  They'll talk shop, and Beth will help illuminate this unusual concept!

Transcript

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Hi, I'm your host Lori Larson, and this is the year I read the Bible. Welcome a Lifelong Christian. I thought I was familiar with the Bible, but in 2023 I accepted the challenge of reading the whole thing, cover to cover. Whenever I encountered something I didn't understand or wanted to learn more. I jotted it down, but I kept reading to stay on schedule. Then I reached the end Imagine Confetti rating down on me, and a huge sigh of relief. I had 40 topics to research in 2024. I started diving into all those topics. I did research, I wrote blogs and I shared them with whoever might wanna learn too. And in 2025, the project continues. I published a book containing all my essays, and now a podcast. Is there something you can learn from that dusty book that sits on all of our shelves? Yes. Yes, there is. Let's dive into The year I read the Bible. Hello friends. Welcome back to a brand new episode of the year I read the Bible. I am so thrilled that you've joined us today. Today I have a. Possibly a new concept for you that may or may not be totally understandable at first, depending on your familiarity with a certain job here on Earth. But I hope you'll go with me and see if you can draw the lines together by the time we're done. Okay. With that intro, here's today's essay, Jesus as the ultimate project manager. Are you a fan of the phenomenon called the Chosen? It's a streaming television series working on its fifth season, and it's unbelievably popular. It paints the story of Jesus's ministry on Earth, and it puts into action the stories we read. In the Gospels as an artistic format. It's a great supplement to reading the Bible because we actually get to know the characters spread over hours of viewing time, and I believe the results are biblically accurate. I bought a book from the chosen group called A Blended Harmony of the Gospels. We all know that the four gospels of the New Testament. Matthew, mark, Luke, and John were written by different people. In a previous two-part podcast series, I researched and described each author, and we know that two of the books were written by members of Jesus's 12 and two were written by men who came later and only heard about him through eyewitnesses to him. Some Gospels feature stories repeated more than once, and some gospels tell stories that are not repeated otherwise, or the stories are a little bit different. The details vary. A blended harmony of the Gospels is one book that includes all the information presented by the four gospels. It accounts for differences in details and when there are stories told more than once, it consolidates them into one story. Unlike the Bible, there are no chapter or verse numbers. It reads more like a novel or a historical account. As I was reading it. A few key points jumped out to me. I jotted them down, and after looking them over, it dawned on me that by following Jesus's example, we come up with a pretty solid guide to managing efforts or situations in our own lives. Here, let me show you what I mean. One thing that stood out to me when reading the blended gospels is how often Jesus loved to go to the ocean. It doesn't surprise me that this point caught my interest because guess what? I love to go to the ocean too. Some people are mountain enthusiasts. Some love the forests or lakes, but for me it's always been the ocean. As a child, my parents, who were ocean lovers as well, made a dedicated effort to get our family to the ocean every summer. Yeah, fortunately the man I married is an ocean lover too, and was on board when I wanted to carry on that tradition with our kids now, retired from the day job and able to live wherever we want. We live just a few miles from the Atlantic Ocean in beautiful South Carolina. Going to the beach is a regular part of my schedule now. I go because I love it. The beauty of the waves, the sinking and rising of the sun on the horizon, the wildlife I see along my walk crabs. Sea birds, sea creatures that get washed up along the shore, the seashells that fill up my pockets when I spot unique ones, I've never collected that sound. The ocean makes as the tide roars in and out. A phrase always runs through my mind. The ocean's gonna do what the ocean's gonna do. I'm not sure where I came up with that, but it reminds me that we are not always in charge. There are things we can't control, and the ocean is one of them. It's a great place to pray as I move my legs to hike through the sand, my heart pumping, my eyes feasting on the beauty around me. My mind is free to focus on prayer. I give thanks to the Lord for his creation and for the glorious set of circumstances that allowed me a landlocked mid-westerner for the majority of my life to end up here exactly where I want to be. I run through problems or issues with him and talk through options. I plan the future. I ask for forgiveness. I praise him for everything I can. And when I'm done with my walk, I've accomplished so much exercise, yes, but I've enhanced my spirit and my mood, and I've hopefully resolved whatever issues were running around in my head. Another thing Jesus did, Jesus went away from his demanding work to be alone and pray. This reminds me of when I was in the thick of a very exhilarating, demanding, often stressful, but always rewarding career. I spent over 20 years in leadership at a major Fortune 50 company and in that length of time. Corporate direction evolves. Priorities change, processes change, technology changes. One thing that doesn't change is the need for those of us leading the show to think, to meditate, to address problems, and to decide which way to go to avoid the next round of problems. Jesus was a leader of the highest degree. His three year earthly ministry could be seen as a project to bring improvement to the status quo. He was the project manager. God was his sponsor, and his disciples were his core team. His stakeholders and consumers were all the people he encountered each and every day while out preaching. And he had critics too. A very outspoken set of them in the Pharisees and the Jewish leaders of the day who opposed him? I'm certainly not comparing my own leadership role to Jesus's, but go with me here. There are some similarities, aren't there? There were times in my own career that I felt so burdened with the daily meetings, the project schedule, the budget concerns, the change in requirements, the loss of key people. In other words, the day-to-day grind that I forgot to go away from the work to be alone and think things through. If I had done that, removed myself from the crazy for a little while, I could probably identify some key problem areas that weren't clear to me when I was in the thick of it, I could ruminate about problem solving, identify options, how to change what we were doing, that not only wasn't solving problems, they may have been making things worse. I like to think that Jesus saw the value in this method too. He often walked away from his disciples and the people leaning on every word to be by himself and pray with his ultimate sponsor, his father. Another method Jesus used that stuck out to me was he understood his scope. Project leaders always have to nail down what is in scope and what is out of scope because of this little thing we like to call scope creep. If your effort isn't clearly defined, you'll continue to take on more and more work, and ultimately nothing will ever get done. What do I mean by Jesus understood his scope? Yes, he knew that he was God's son and God's will was to place him there on earth at that particular place and time to make revolutionary change. He would become the sacrificial lamb on earth to take away the sin of the world, and he would let people know that by accepting him as their savior. And asking God's forgiveness for sins, they would be welcomed into the Kingdom of heaven so that they may live with God eternally. What a big order, but a verse in Matthew 1524 gives us a clue that Jesus understood his own scope of this incredibly big job. In the new Living translation, it reads, then Jesus said to the woman. I was sent only to help God's lost sheep, the people of Israel. Jesus' earthly ministry was focused on the people of Israel. In other words, the Jews. What we discovered later in the acts of the apostles is that Jesus' promise of salvation was not just intended for Jewish people, but for gentiles as well. In other words, non-Jews, everyone, God has opened up the doors of the kingdom to any human who believes in him. He's a loving and inclusive God who wants all his sheep saved. But Jesus in his limited time on Earth, and to clearly define his scope, limited his teaching to Jews. What are the big projects you're facing in your life? Are you caught up in the daily whirlwind just going through the motions that you've always done? Maybe it's not the best way. Jesus's lessons in project management can be applied to any major effort you're facing in your own life. Just make sure you regularly communicate with your sponsor for regular feedback and direction setting. Let's pray. Dear Lord, thank you for the wealth of lessons and learnings that we find in the Bible. And thank you that certain lessons speak loudly to us when they apply directly to our lives. Please illuminate the learnings you direct us to so we can absorb and execute as you would have us do. Amen. And now. I welcome back another repeat guest who you've met once before. She has the experience in her career of being a professional project manager just like I have. So she and I are gonna talk shop for a little bit and, make the connection between project management and Jesus. Stay tuned.

Laurie 13:14

And we are back. I am here with my friend and podcast guest, Beth Dooley. You may remember Beth was a guest on a previous podcast. Beth was the perfect person for both of these episodes because she's from Illinois, like me, which is the land of Lincoln. So when I had an essay earlier about Abraham Lincoln. She was perfect for that. And this one is about Jesus as the ultimate project manager. And guess what? Beth is retired from a career as a project manager, so she's bringing very specialized knowledge and expertise to her two episodes.

Beth 13:54

Hello.

Laurie 13:54

Welcome Beth. And I happen to know that, you are joining me today with the ocean in your background. Where are you today?

Beth 14:04

doing a little after holiday

Laurie 14:06

How nice. Always good. Yes, that's right. Always necessary. So I mentioned that you spent some time in your career as a. Professional project manager, can you give us an example of either one of your favorite or one of your most difficult or one of your most successful projects that you manage? You pick one, just one project that kind of stood out to you.

Beth 14:35

a co a second one just real quick too, but, but I do wanna say, before I give an

Laurie 14:41

Sure.

Beth 14:41

during my time, my three, seven years with my employer, I had really what I considered four different careers, where I did very different things still with the same employer, but the role of project manager was probably my favorite. I really enjoyed. Being given a situation, figuring out how to change it for the better, leading the team to make it happen and then seeing it successfully implemented. So, love the role of project manager and I think you

Laurie 15:08

Yeah,

Beth 15:09

I think you found goodness

Laurie 15:11

that's yes. Well, I'm lucky too that the company that we both worked for was willing to take people that had, shown some success in whatever role they were in and train them to do something new. So even though I had no previous experience as a project manager, the roles that I had done in the past, I guess I had proven that I can take on a new challenge and I can learn and I can be successful. So yeah, then I took the training to actually manage project teams and yeah, it was, it was a great job. It, I,

Beth 15:47

fit for

Laurie 15:47

really enjoyed it as well.

Beth 15:49

excuse me, see something to success,

Laurie 15:53

it is a tactical job. There's, schedules and there's milestones, and there's work that has to be done. It's not just. And I don't wanna say just people management, people development, because I did that as well. And that's very important, making sure that your people are prepared to do their best work. But this, you saw an end to it. There was an end goal. It either worked or it didn't, you know.

Beth 16:16

of the assignments that I wanted to share. One of my first ones was developing the internet presence for our company. So yes, just, just a few

Laurie 16:26

Big.

Beth 16:26

you know, it was what, the early two thousands, we were beginning to set up our online activities. And with that, there was a lot of work with the business area to figure out what does this mean, what does it look like? Then it was my team figuring out how to make that happen. What's the timeline to meet dates? And a lot of times, dates were given to us and we had to meet them. And then the implementation. And a lot of times we did the implementation for these overnight from Saturday to Sunday, because that's when usage was low. But it was, it was really kind of fun because we would gather in the building, like on early on a Sunday morning to monitor the progress of our implementations and so forth. What was super cool for me is when once it was complete, we could then go out to our.com page and there it was. That's what I did. And it was exciting to see all the work that we had done come together for our customers. So that was probably one of that I felt really good about the success of. I also had quite a few challenging projects I had become known as a project manager that could be given a struggling project and. Make some changes to it and eventually deliver a successful result. these were, the work was not enjoyable because it was really kind of a cleanup situation, but what a reward when you were able to take a mess and turn it into something positive. I always looked at the end

Laurie 17:52

Yeah.

Beth 17:53

what did I do for our customers? And then felt good about what that was.

Laurie 17:58

Yeah. And along the way I imagine that you helped to develop the people on your team, giving them challenges and opportunities to do things that maybe they had never done, so that the next time they moved on to another project team, they were able to, contribute in ways that, that you helped. Uh.

Beth 18:18

and there

Laurie 18:19

Get going.

Beth 18:19

of the folks that had been on project teams of mine over the years that eventually became project managers themselves they saw like what the

Laurie 18:27

Yeah.

Beth 18:28

through me and, and wanted to pursue it themselves. So that was exciting.

Laurie 18:33

Yeah. So in the essay, I kind of likened Jesus's three year ministry. To a project and he was the project manager and God was the sponsor of the project. And all the people that he was ministering to were his stakeholders or the people who were going to benefit from this project, of bringing salvation to the world. so I mentioned that Jesus enjoyed getting away from it all. Either to the ocean or to the mountains in order to just get away from the crowd and think things through. Get away from the hustle bustle of the project or the job that he was doing to focus. On his approach, come up with solutions and maybe brainstorm new things to try. We see that in the gospels. I used to do that in my professional project management career, but in retrospect, probably not nearly often enough. Do you do that or did you do that, when you were working in the midst of a complicated. Effort. And if so, where is your favorite place to escape to?

Beth 19:52

is a valuable tool for anybody in leadership. You have to know when to step away for

Laurie 19:57

I.

Beth 19:58

clear your mind. It allows for new thoughts, ideas, approaches to come to the forefront, and plus, it's a stress reliever. And it's a good break for you mentally, physically, emotionally, important for us. For anyone who's under pressure with work, family, society, but, but boy, Jesus sure had a lot that he needed to get some stress relief from and take a break from as well. He was doing a project that had never been done and since that time, still hasn't been done again. So, when I was working and the office that I was in was very large. Several buildings connected by walkways. The walkways were full of windows that had tables and chairs, set up for like informal meetings. part of the company property included a small lake. You know what I'm talking about, right? Lori? You know where those areas were? Well, while I was

Laurie 20:52

Yes.

Beth 20:52

getaway would be just to go to one of those tables in the walkway. Get a view of the water. it,

Laurie 20:58

Yeah.

Beth 20:59

like I was not at work for a brief period of time, and that was great. Sometimes I would take my laptop, crank

Laurie 21:05

Mm-hmm.

Beth 21:06

make some calls, or other times I would just go and maybe listen to some music and just kind of meditate for a bit too. But it was, a great break and, very necessary on some days. But I have to admit though, now that I'm retired, my escape is our front porch. Very similar. It faces a small lake. So maybe water is my thing. I'm not quite sure, But when

Laurie 21:31

Mm-hmm.

Beth 21:32

out

Laurie 21:32

Sounds like it.

Beth 21:33

no houses, which means there's no people. It's quiet except for the sounds of nature. And again, I sway in my rocking chair, closing my eyes and just enjoy the peace. So you do need that. But I'll admit though, sometimes the escape is my bed. Maybe I'll lay in bed for a few extra minutes in the morning before starting the day, or go to bed a little early and just relax. And be comfortable. So I think you can

Laurie 21:59

Yeah,

Beth 21:59

your place, but it is important to know that it's okay to step away and, and just have some me time.

Laurie 22:06

well, I can see this. It when I was working as a project manager, but I definitely see it in my work as an author. I have noticed that when I'm in the shower and the water is spraying down on me and I'm just closing my eyes and letting the water. Something in my plot that I was kind of mulling over will come to me. It's like, oh, oh my gosh, yes, that is gonna work. You know, like, why would this character do this? What would be her motivation? Like, what is a believable motive for this? Oh yeah. And then I'm soaking wet and I have to run and jot it down so I don't forget. And I could probably remember back to the days when I was, getting my shower before work, just pondering over a work problem and, and coming up with a answer in the same way. So I'm a water person too.

Beth 23:03

and thoughts come to us at the strangest times, sometimes.

Laurie 23:06

Yeah. Well, Jesus used some of his time when he got away from the craziness of the world to pray in a remote location. I can compare Jesus praying to God about his ministry. To a project manager meeting periodically with their sponsor to walk through progress, identify problems, get advice or encouragement.

Beth 23:34

Is

Laurie 23:35

do you think about this?

Beth 23:36

sponsor of everything. So yeah, I mean,

Laurie 23:40

Yeah.

Beth 23:41

So Jesus used, quiet time to connect with his sponsor God. And so I totally agree with that concept. Prayer time for him was important. God, as his sponsor needed to hear from him, they were evaluating how things were going here on earth. You know, God sent him down for this mission, and so he kinda wanted some periodic updates. Just like what as project managers we give to our sponsors. But let's be honest, God presented Jesus with the biggest project ever. He was following it very closely as Jesus proceeded through all of the project tasks in his project schedule, and, God knew the

Laurie 24:21

Yeah.

Beth 24:21

end time. He knew the, the quote unquote implementation date of all of this. So in the

Laurie 24:27

Mm-hmm.

Beth 24:28

project

Laurie 24:29

Yeah.

Beth 24:29

Jesus sacrificed everything for the goodness of his consumers. And that's all of us. So,

Laurie 24:36

Yeah.

Beth 24:36

I really enjoyed how you created this parallel with project management because there are aspects of Jesus's walk on Earth that definitely aligned to, the steps we followed in project management.

Laurie 24:49

Which brings up another similarity that I brought up in the essay was understanding your scope. As project managers, we had to guard against scope creep, we called it. In other words, we have to understand exactly what is in our effort and what is not in our effort, what is outside of our effort. Because if we just tried to do everything, then nothing would get done. I think Jesus showed signs of trying to keep to his scope. What are your thoughts about this?

Beth 25:18

that could have used Jesus' assistance. There was, Goodness happening that he could have spent time enhancing, but there was also a lot happening that needed to be fixed. So huge scope for him. But he stayed focused on his project goal and he pursued the project task in order to get to where it needed to be. and I bet he reflected very often. What is it that my father sent me here to do and am I getting where I need to be?

Laurie 25:51

Yeah.

Beth 25:51

also in his prayers with God, he was probably doing his double check as well. So, by keeping that focus, he was able to do his scope management for the time that he had available and for the people that were going to be impacted by it. So, I liked as you stated in your essay, Lori, that

Laurie 26:08

Hey.

Beth 26:09

scope was God's lost sheep. people of Israel, that was a huge

Laurie 26:13

Yeah,

Beth 26:14

but he shepherded all those sheep back to

Laurie 26:17

yeah,

Beth 26:18

offered them life eternal. What a blessing.

Laurie 26:21

yeah. And then. Phase two of the project after resurrection and after Jesus came and set up the next set of, apostles and missionaries to go and open the church, was to minister to the Gentiles the non-Jews, which in Jesus' scope or his focus was on the Jews, as you said. But then. Because he knew that these people would need additional resources and help. That's when he released the advocate for them, the Holy Spirit, to help them to talk to all the Gentiles. Because going from Judaism to Christianity, when their entire history is based on the Messiah coming eventually, but now. Starting with Paul and some of the disciples like, Simon Peter was very big on, ministering to the Gentiles. They, could be coming from all kinds of different backgrounds and didn't even have the starting point that the Jews did. So the Holy Spirit was an additional resource, if you will, that Jesus provided. So, yeah.

Beth 27:34

Our scope would be complete, but there might be aspects of it that needed to carry on, and then that would be either we

Laurie 27:42

Yes.

Beth 27:43

created another project or we passed it to the next person, but we passed on. Here's some scope items you will want to consider. So, Jesus did that. Then for those that

Laurie 27:55

Yes.

Beth 27:55

and helped them to get a foot ahead. As they began their mission.

Laurie 28:02

Well, thank you for understanding my analogy of Jesus as the ultimate project manager and helping to explain it to everyone who might be listening. Do you have any other thoughts about comparing project management to Jesus, managing his own three year project on earth?

Beth 28:23

that. I wanted to mention was there's some qualities that he displayed that I really admire, and some of these qualities are ones that I tried to display too as a project manager. But it was not always easy. First of all, he remained determined to do all he could for mankind. He was faced with lots of challenges and struggles,

Laurie 28:46

Yeah.

Beth 28:46

he knew what needed to happen and he was doggone gonna make it happen. Determination. It was, really amazing. He also kept a very calm demeanor he did not allow issues to sway him from his goals. That can be really hard if you are passionate about what you're doing and if something comes up and impacts your passion to stay focused and stay

Laurie 29:11

Hmm.

Beth 29:11

and keep moving forward. but above and

Laurie 29:14

Yeah. Oh, you are so right.

Beth 29:16

Yeah.

Laurie 29:17

I'm having memories of some of the projects that I worked on. Yeah.

Beth 29:21

kept his focus on his people, his team of disciples, the people he was serving. And he knew that he was providing the ultimate result for all of us in life, eternal. And so by keeping that focus. He knew this the steps he needed to follow and the result would be awesome. So for sure, Jesus was the best project manager ever.

Laurie 29:45

Beth, it's been such a pleasure chatting with you about this and you have brought up some really excellent points. So I wanna thank you so much for that. All right, well I am going to end this one right there, and I hope to see you soon. Enjoy the rest of your beach getaway.

30:02

and that's it for today. Thank you very much for being here with me on the year I read the Bible Podcast. We'll be back with another episode next week. If you enjoy this podcast, please do all the normal things to spread the word like it. Review it, share it with your friends. If you are interested in additional the year, I read the Bible resources such as the book, the video channel, and the blog, I will certainly include the links in the show notes, and I'd love to hear about your own journey to read the Bible cover to cover. Have you done it or are you doing it right now? Please reach out to me and let me know how it's going. Until next time, it's Lori Larson with the year I read the Bible. Bye.